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Sens Underground Forums > Sens make some moves

not much but because of the waivers thing, all they really could do. Borocop and Grant back to bingo, Hoffman up to big team. Looking forward to seeing how Hoffman's speed helps out team. feel bad for Borocop as he was one of the better Dmen since his call up. he'll be back though.

Something had to happen. couldn't just go on sucking every game. maybe, just maybe, this will send a message to the team as a whole. probably not, though. These guys just don't seem to learn.its the same mistakes every single game.

December 2, 2013 at 11:34 AM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

"its the same mistakes every single game"

we make a similar mistake... we watch every game expecting a different result.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I agree about Borocop, He was one of the few players that gave it all and was one of the most consistent ones (in a good way)

December 2, 2013 at 11:53 AM | Registered CommenterHomer

I'm getting a bit annoyed that the team can send Cowen down with no waivers (for about another 20 games) and haven't yet. I think it would do him a world of good to get down with a team that IS playing well defensively, and out of the spotlight on his struggles in Ottawa.

I hope Hoffman gets a genuine chance on the 1st or 2nd lines, not just a period or two. The team is struggling and expecting a young winger to be all the difference and fit in immediately is ludicrous.

December 2, 2013 at 12:32 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

I'm trying to figure out what the lines might be, based on the season up to now and the changes in yesterday's game. I give up.

Michalek - Spezza - Hoffman
MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Greening - Smith - Neil
Conacher - Zibanejad - Condra

December 2, 2013 at 1:15 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

the ironic thing is that they keep switching up the lines, trying to generate something offensively, but the real problem is in their own end. they've scored enough goals this year, they just can't keep them out of their own net.

December 2, 2013 at 1:20 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

From practice, these were the lines:

MacArthur - Spezza - Zibanejad
Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Smith - Neil
Conacher - Greening - Condra

The 4th line has no C (Greening's comment: "Well, I took some faceoffs a few years ago in Bingo when Corey Locke was injured"). Interesting approach, coach.

December 2, 2013 at 2:05 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Michalek going to the 3rd line and McArthur moving to Spezza's left are both obvious options...when there are not other options of any consequence left! I've been hoping to see it. There's nothing left!

Michalek's play has made it very clear that he's a bottom six forward. You're not going to trick anyone into going after him at the trade deadline. They know about the knees...So why not be realistic. We' paying a guy $6mil this season to kill penalties and work on the 3rd line. He's done this year anyway.

That's total BS about Borowiecki going down instead of Cowen. There's no way that's the coach's call.

The 4th line isn't going to get much ice time in this configuration. That Greening deal was puzzling.

December 2, 2013 at 4:07 PM | Registered CommenterPesky Jones

They wanted to bring a forward up, so they sent Grant down to make the space for him (doesn't need to clear waivers). I don't know if Conacher needs to clear them (I don't think so), but I would have sent him and kept the 4th line centre who's been solid defensively, good on the PK and been winning faceoffs when needed.

I agree Pesky, I think sending Borocop down and keeping Cowen is likely as more of an accounting decision than anything else. I don't really get it, as they were paying Cowen and Boro an NHL salary for several weeks already.

December 2, 2013 at 5:54 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Have to agree I don't understand these moves. A trip to Bingo just might wake Cowen up.

December 2, 2013 at 9:24 PM | Registered CommenterSunburned Senior

I thought Cowen would need waivers to go down to Bingo. In any case, he NEEDS some time down there with Richardson to find his game again. The injuries have take their toll on his body and confidence

Now, the lines... My lines would be different than Stache's:

MacArthur - Spezza - Greening
Hoffman - Turris - Ryan
Condra - Zibanejad - Michalek
Conacher - Smith - Neil

I would try to bring back some of that chemistry Greening had with Spezza.

The way Spezza is playing, though, I don't see him getting resigned. I think he's really ruining team chemistry and setting a bad example with his play.

Could Turris be the #1 centre in a year? With Zibanejad and Smith slotting right behind him? Curtis Lazar isn't that far off either.

December 2, 2013 at 11:46 PM | Registered CommenterSens Dawg

Pretty hard to send cowen. Too much money there, Murray would look really bad after signing that deal with him.

December 2, 2013 at 11:58 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

The conacher for bishop deal is looking like a real bust now. Not too late for conacher to turn it around but he's just so small. Everyone always hopes their small guy is going to be the next st.louis or fleury but it almost never happens. As much as I like pageau, he's likely headed for the same fate. It's so tough for small guys now. They are such a gamble.

December 3, 2013 at 12:03 AM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

According to a recent conversation on the radio, Cowen doesn't need waivers for about another 20 games. This is due to how many games he has played, in spite of not being on an entry contract anymore (burned first year very quickly).

December 3, 2013 at 6:51 AM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Strange thing is: Hoffman will have to clear waivers...

Silver Seven Sens:


Also of note is that Hoffman is not waiver exempt. This won't be a short-term call up - he's going to either sink or swim in what might be his last chance to make the big club in a Senators uniform.

That makes this call up quite a bit stranger. Especially in the light of him just getting the 'C' in Bingo and Grant not doing too badly.

December 4, 2013 at 7:09 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Let's not ruin Ceci's career by keeping him up here for long. Management has to face it that he's not the answer to the problems. Ok, he might be doing better than some other D, but I'd rather become the new Detroit than the new Buffalo. We suck now, that won't always be the case. If you have a friggin' budgetcap-thingy in place you better treat your important prospects with the utmost care. Same goes for Lazar. Please, let him develop, he's more valuable in the long run.

Hey I'd better email this to the show.

December 20, 2013 at 2:11 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

I'd say that makes a lot of sense, Labs.

December 20, 2013 at 10:44 AM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

good call labru,

Travis Yost ‏@TravisHeHateMe 9m
"..whispers in the industry that Sens GM Bryan Murray might have to cut salary before the end of the season if the losing continues.."

December 20, 2013 at 4:52 PM | Registered Commentertjlincoln

Pension Plan Muppets ‏@mlse 11m
Sure is great to have a single passionate owner instead of a faceless corporation eh Sens fans? Cap's just a suggestion anyway

I do hate it when Toronto puppets are right, eh

December 20, 2013 at 4:55 PM | Registered Commentertjlincoln

yeah, but look what it got them? they still suck and are still going to lose so whats the point in them bragging?

December 20, 2013 at 5:39 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

Predictions sure to be wrong:

- Ceci sent down to save his development
- Corvo traded for anything
- Spezza traded for a 1a, 1b center and spare parts

Burn it down.

December 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM | Registered CommenterAgent Orange

Best answers for Toronto trolls:

1) May 13, 2013
2) making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2013
3) Stanley Cup final in the era of colour / HD TV

Now, as far as Ceci and Lazar, I fervently hope that the team doesn't try to make them the saviour. Ceci has looked very good in some of the games he has played here, and not so good in others, much like the whole team. He's not the solution right now. Neither will Lazar be next year. If it's a reBUILD, then build, not try to throw everything together and *hope* it works. Building takes development and time, not just money.

It's the short-attention-span, I-want-everything-now immediate gratification stance to think that money will solve everything and we will be a contender now. The team could make the playoffs, but go far? For how many years until that falls apart too? It took how may for Pittsburgh or Chicago to rebuild? And they did it with how many top 5 / top 10 picks? Detroit develops their own players too, over TIME.

December 21, 2013 at 8:39 AM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Ok, I'm going to explain this again. Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit don't ONLY develop their players, they are attractive organizations to go to:

Same argument that Kards gave on the show: Hossa only won 2 cups in the 4 times that he's made it to the finals. He's been a UFA or traded to each organization, which is not being developed by these organizations. Going back to CHI, Only Towes and Kane have been the big names on the offence and Keith and Seabrook are D drafted by CHI. 2 of which are top 3 picks. Ottawa has not been bottom barrel, and even if they are, they don't have the pick this year.

Previous winner is LA, who picked up Carter and Richards via Trade, Kopitar, Doughty and Quick were drafted and Williams was traded.

Boston UFA for Chara, got Bergeron in the 2nd round and traded for Rask. Iggy was a UFA who was lured by the chance to win a cup.

Detroit picks up no one via trade, but do that by drafting guys late that are diamonds in the rough. How do they do that? By being a top class organization with possibly one of the best coaches, and an owner with money who's willing to compensate to fair market value.

These are all cup contenders

Where does this leave Ottawa? Can you imagine getting Alfie back at 5.5M on this team to fill out the top 6 and get ONE defensive defence man via trade for a package? That probably would have made this team in the same class as the above teams. This would have the developed players like Alfie, SPezza, Karlsson, Lehner to be drafted and developed by Ottawa, Trade for Ryan, Methot and whoever the other D Man would have been and UFA acquisitions such as MacArthur (who is B class UFA, but done DAMN well.) And don't tell me that the point of the rebuild is to make the playoffs and that's it. We did it 2 years straight and moved on to the 2nd round last year. That was the rebuild and we mortgaged the future to get Ryan. The future should be now, and it isn't. I blame this on the ownership situation here and squarely on Melnyk. If he just wants to have a team that's competitive, fine, but don't BS us. And yes, hot dogs are important too.

December 21, 2013 at 2:09 PM | Registered CommenterPost Draft Pan

UFA pickups / trades for Ottawa: Michalek, Ryan, MacArthur, Methot, Turris, Anderson. Ottawa does the trade/buy talent thing too, and I"ve NEVER said they haven't. The Hossa example is a near-unique example, so it carries no weight.

Does ANYONE think that player #11 at $7M (or two years at $6M, which is what his demands of the team were, not what he signed for in Detroit so using that comparison is utter tripe) would be the solution for this team? Really? Be honest here. He's doing reasonably well in Detroit but he'd be 5th / 6th on the Senators as they scoring sits today and Alfredsson has been playing with some uber-elite talent to get those points.

We also know that had player #11 been signed then MacArthur wouldn't be here. Simple fact, and wishing it otherwise doesn't make it so. Would #11 be a more useful player than #16? I don't think so, especially next year.

"Trading for a package" only works if you have the package to put together for the other team. It worked for Ryan but the price was steep, and if the team were to make another such trade of valuable assets to get another one, it would be Zibanejad + Ceci, or someone like Methot, plus another 1st round pick as what those demanding trades want to give away aren't what other teams are going to want. Anderson isn't going to draw that kind of trade this season unless he goes on a 6 game shutout streak and I doubt even that would be enough to get a top 6 forward for him.

This is a business, not a wishing well, and demanding that a team over-exceed every year or they aren't meeting expectations is as laughable as it would be in any other business world. One only has to look at Apple shares to realize the bubble bursts eventually on unrealistic expectations, and if the Senators are doing that now then it's better now than later.

Demanding Melnyk throw millions of his own money at the team every year to satisfy instant gratification demands makes as much sense as equating cap space with first round picks: they're both unrealistic. And tiresome.

December 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Alfie is worth 5.5M. And use his name, show some respect.

December 21, 2013 at 4:00 PM | Registered CommenterPost Draft Pan

He demanded $7M to sign here for 1 year, and signed elsewhere for $5.5M after deciding he didn't want to play in Ottawa anymore. Simple truths. I don't think he's worth $7M, nor did Detroit, so I'm not alone in that stance.

And check out the last line of the 2nd paragraph where I used Alfredsson's name. I also referred to MacArthur as #16, so any lack of respect is in the eye of the beholder and nothing more.

December 21, 2013 at 4:06 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal