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Sens Underground Forums > Are We Going To Have A Lockout???

not that I have any love of one side over the other here, but when I hear there are only 9 or 10 "viable" (profitable) teams in the NHL and the rest lose money, i find it hard to blame the players for that. is it the players fault that the league refuses to bury that dead coyotee in the desert? if they moved some of their dregs to cities that would definitely thrive, wouldn't this solve a lot of their problems? but no, greed insists that these markets be saved for 'expansion revenue'. so great, the league expands by three teams then three others move to weak markets or fold.

i know its in the players interests too to have more teams but if the league put them in cities where they had no chance to survive, and then refuses to move them, i'd be pissed too if i was being asked to take a pay cut to keep it afloat.

another thought: the owners want those expansion fees but how many years worth of loses will it take in phoenix, that the league covers, before those expansion fees are eaten up?

October 17, 2012 at 5:51 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

Can't say I disagree much with that. The league has to take responsibility for the failed franchises. But they can't even admit it, so I doubt they will take responsibility. Just like they will never admit that refs make bad calls or have a bias against certain players or teams.

But you have admit, this 50/50 offer and the timing of it with the resolve not to lose any games is a bold move by the NHL to swing fan support in their favor. Hell, they even released details about the offer. There are several points that the NHL fan would agree is better for the game. Like the 5 year max contract length and no more front end loaded deals. I think those two points alone are worth more than the 50/50 split. They will stop teams from playing a player $10M+ disguised as a $6M cap hit.

If the NHLPA isn't careful on how they respond, they will be made the bag guys and the owners will wait them out.

October 17, 2012 at 6:35 PM | Registered CommenterHomer

neither side is going to win me over. they're both greedy idiots. if they spent more time negotiating and less time trying to win 'public opinion', they'd be playing by now.

October 17, 2012 at 6:40 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

Can fans make an addition to the CBA? I'd like to add this.

- All future CBA negotiations must start one year prior to the expiry of the CBA. These must meaningful negotiations, not simply meet, call each other names and leave after an hour.
- Any delay to the start of a season will result in an immediate discount of no less then 25% on all tickets and merchandise for two seasons when hockey resumes. This will affect HRR, which in turn will affect both owners and players.

October 18, 2012 at 12:10 PM | Registered CommenterHomer

Well the NHLPA made their response. They want to be payed in oranges, while the league wants to pay then with apples.

TIme for the NHL to make a the offer they can't possibly refuse.

Same offer as before , but with three slices of bacon per player after every game

October 18, 2012 at 5:52 PM | Registered CommenterHomer

how do you thin k them Duke boys are gonna get out of this one?

*sigh*

October 18, 2012 at 8:54 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

thought this was funny at first, but then realized NOT really!

October 19, 2012 at 5:58 PM | Registered Commentermethottomymadness

That's a lot for a box of tissues!!

A bit of comedic relief at Thursday’s CBA talks saw hardliner Jeremy Jacobs (Boston Bruins owner) say, “Gary has the hardest job, represents owners and players.” To which NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr quipped, “Can we fire him?"

October 21, 2012 at 2:00 PM | Registered Commenterbeach bunny

Jonathan Toews: “All we’re asking is for them to honor the current contracts we’re under and they’re still trying to find ways not to do that.”

Zach Parise: “You have all these owners signing big deals minutes before the CBA expires and then going the next day, ‘We don’t want to pay these contracts.’ Maybe that’s how they conduct business. That just doesn’t seem right. What if us players signed a deal and said, ‘You know what, I actually want 15 percent more?’ ”

 Dan Boyle: “I look at a chance to win the Cup and I'm getting older. This is our window.  I'm not so concerned about the money, as I am with the fact we're missing games and we're missing an opportunity to try to win this thing. That's what's pissing me off.”

October 21, 2012 at 2:05 PM | Registered Commenterbeach bunny

“After all the concessions the players made last time, in the billions of dollars, and with the owners having had record revenues seven years in a row, and the two highest growth years being last season and the season before, we see no basis upon which to tell players to go backward,” Fehr said.

As I said in an earlier rant I've always been on management side in these stupid stoppages in sports until the NFL lockout last year and especially this one and Fehr's quote is why. Fehr has been proven right in everything he did for the MLB players with record profits now for both the players and owners. There is only a couple of exceptions that teams don't make money in MLB and that's because of terrible ownership not the players salaries. Even Oakland with very small attendance and a bad stadium makes $$ because of profit sharing with large markets
Fehr will not give in completely just because Bettman and a few owners want him to and that's just the bottom line. Hell, he's even willing to move to a 50/50 split over time just not tomorrow like they want when they have had the biggest growth in the sport ever.

October 21, 2012 at 9:34 PM | Registered Commentertjlincoln

The NHL has bigger problems than this lockout. The league's whole model is fundamentally flawed. From this also stem the league's problems with player salaries and expenses.

They should be trying to copy the NFL in every aspect they can.

October 22, 2012 at 7:42 PM | Registered CommenterSens Dawg

BSens Dawg---The NFL is by far the most popular sport here in the US and the TV contracts reflect that so my solution is in Canada the NHL is by the most popular sport but u guys don't have the population that we do but u do have a larger land mass so you people need to get freaking busy up there making babies. Quit watching TV, moose hunting, drinking beer etc. and start making more babies before the TV contracts are up so u have more and more eyeballs watching Hockey.

October 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM | Registered Commentertjlincoln

Nah, I like my 1.3 people per square kilometer. When it takes me 30 minutes to drive home, across the city, in rush hour I'm like, "Omg why is this taking soooo long!?"

The whole NHL system is flawed as Dawg mentioned. The owners might have had record profits in the past 7 years, but they've also had record loses. No matter who is right in the player vs. owners argument, when you have a league where less than half the teams in it actually make money, there is a problem.

October 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM | Registered CommenterSpezzial Delivery

"Quit watching TV, moose hunting, drinking beer etc"

hey, that's our foreplay.

October 24, 2012 at 3:54 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

you guys really only have 30 minute commutes in Canada? And yeah I can see moose hunting before......

October 24, 2012 at 8:14 PM | Registered Commentertjlincoln

No hockey on the tube but at least Ginger Snaps 2 was on.

October 25, 2012 at 11:23 PM | Registered CommenterSunburned Senior

dammit! why didn't you call?

October 25, 2012 at 11:57 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

Just watched the Oilers kick the Leafs butts 1980 style. And Bob Cole was as bad then as he is now. But I have to admit he did get most of the players names right.

October 27, 2012 at 9:05 PM | Registered CommenterSunburned Senior

i think that was bill hewitt, not bob cole. explains why the names were right.

October 27, 2012 at 9:38 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

So the NHL and NHLPA have met three days in a row. That's got to be a record.

Apparently most of the talks reside around the "make whole" provision of existing contacts if the players accept a 50-50 split of HRR.

Now what players does the "make whole" provision affect the most? It's the players who have those long term front end loaded deals, that's who. According to CapGeek.com, 42 players have a deal 7 years or longer. (6% of the players in the league)

For these 42 players:
Average contract length is 9.2 years
Average contract value is $56.9M
Average cap hit is: $6.1

If you look at players that have contracts of 8 years or more, that's only 22 players. (3.1% of the players in the league)
For these 22 players:
Average contract length is 11.2 years
Average contract value is $71.4M
Average cap hit is: $6.4

How long will the other 94-97% of the players fight for these guys making the top dollar in the league?

November 8, 2012 at 3:37 PM | Registered CommenterHomer

That 6% of players put asses in seats (Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc.). I think the 94% know that.

November 8, 2012 at 7:09 PM | Registered CommenterSens Dawg

Interesting stats Homer. Is there any way to see which of these contracts have been signed within the last year / two years vs those that have been in place for several years? I'd be curious to see how many are recent, as it seems there have been a lot of long ones signed lately.

November 9, 2012 at 11:10 AM | Registered CommenterKardinal

(using info shamelessly stolen from this article)

The last lockout cost us our final look at such greats as Ron Francis, Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, Mark Messier, Vincent Damphousse and Adam Oates. This one could cost us the last season no only the Golden Gawd, but also such names as Kimmo Timonen, Patrik Elias, Sergei Gonchar, Tim Thomas, Jaromir Jagr, Teemu Selanne, Saku Koivu, Nikolai Khabibulin, Roman Hamrlik, Evgeni Nabokov, Vinny Prospal, Adrian Aucoin, Milan Hejduk, Jose Theodore and Jamie Langenbrunner.

@NHL, @NHLPA......you both suck. DONKEYS!

November 16, 2012 at 11:08 AM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Now they want to take two weeks off of negotiations. Getting pretty tired of this....

Let's take a look at some more numbers.

Since the last lockout...

- Revenues went up from $2.2B to $3.3B. A 50% increase.
- Average player salaries have went up from $1.46M to $2.45M. A 67.8% increase

Even people with an IQ rating below 80 knows that this is not sustainable.

In case your interested in IQ ratings.. I'll let you choose where the parties involved in the CBA negations are.

70-80 - Borderline deficiency
50-69 - Moron
20-49 - Imbecile
below 20 - Idiot

Yes the GMs/owners handed out these ridiculous contracts, but it's not all owners. It's a handful of teams that's screwing it up for everybody else.

"Team A", gives "Player A" ridiculous contract. Everyone with an IQ above 80 shakes their head in disbelief.
"Player B" in negotiations with "Team B" looks at the deal "Player A" and wants the same deal because "Team B" is supposed to be equally as stupid as "Team A". Apparently it's written between the lines in the CBA.

This past summer I can just hear Bettman after some of the ridiculous signings before the CBA expired.
"F@#% !! You're killing me guys, just killing me !!"

Now to the players who say they would rather lose a season than accept a pay cut, chew on this...

CBA deal is about 7 years.
NHL again cancels a season because a deal can't be made.
1/7 = 14.3%

So 14.3% in salary lost and 1 year lost in your "short time to make your money"

One last point.. Players have said from the beginning that they would have been willing to continue playing this season while negotiations continued. The NHL wanted no part of this and I can't say that I blame them. Guess who was the MLBPA boss in 1994-95 when the players went on strike near the end of the season cancelling the World Series. Donald Fehr that's who. I have no doubt that he would have done the same thing.

November 16, 2012 at 12:31 PM | Registered CommenterHomer

"it seems there have been a lot of long ones"

TWSS

November 16, 2012 at 12:36 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell