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Sens Underground Forums > The one with the draft, prospects and future considerations.

With no hockey of any interest to me being played anymore, one indulges in fantasy and prospect porn. Not too much, but there's lots to be read on that front. Not that I really care, I trust the Murrays more, than I do myself, when it comes to the future of the Sens.

When I read the Top 100 Prospect List from Hockey Prospectus however, I thought WTF: with our second round pick (54), we can have another Erik Karlsson from Frolunda Sweden.

Someone heard if he's any good?

Please chime in here: What are our needs for the draft? Just a preference for a position, for a type of player, a replacement for someone or an actual prospect?

Last year (or was it the year before that) I really liked Pajaarvi-Svensson. Because from the scouting reports he is a very Alfie-like player (not his quality per se, but his style / type of game). I haven't seen him play much, so I can't say if he's really all that (, just that he's struggling a bit in Edmonton). It's still obvious we need that kind of player in the organisation, but I guess it's too late to fix that through draft. I guess a defensive D-man is another need. One Cowen just isn't enough, with Philips getting older and all...

May 29, 2012 at 3:43 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

[too late to edit last post]

Would be nice if Ceci is still available at 15!

May 29, 2012 at 4:05 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

I've been watching Ceci playing for the 67s for the past few years and he'd be a great choice by the Senators but I doubt he'll still be available by the time our pick comes around. If Bryan Murray can trade up, as long as the price isn't too high, I would really like this pick.

As for defensive D-men, we currently have Borowiecki (@BoroCop) and Eric Gryba (@grybes02) who are close to or NHL-ready, and we also have Patrick Weircoch but he didn't have a great year last year, including being hospitalized after being hit in the throat by a puck.

Having an Erik Karlsson playing on the blue line and passing up to another Erik Karlsson playing left wing.........that might give Bob Cole a chance at getting his name right, but he's be very confused during a penalty kill if one of them was in the penalty box.

May 29, 2012 at 12:31 PM | Registered CommenterKardinal

Don't expect this year's pick to be close to making the team unless there's a major move up the draft line, but I wouldn't like much movement, there's already a lot of prospects in the system. Weircoch has been EVERYWHERE in the media this summer which shows a major push to make the big club....or he's being dragged around by Turris

May 29, 2012 at 10:42 PM | Registered CommenterPost Draft Pan

Having an Erik Karlsson playing on the blue line and passing up to another Erik Karlsson playing left wing.........that might give Bob Cole a chance at getting his name right, but he's be very confused during a penalty kill if one of them was in the penalty box.

... you mean Gonchar, right?

May 30, 2012 at 12:01 PM | Registered CommenterPuddleduck

"...with our second round pick (54), we can have another Erik Karlsson from Frolunda Sweden."

Sens don't have a 2nd round pick this year. They have a 1st and two 3rds.

May 30, 2012 at 5:36 PM | Registered CommenterSens Dawg

Sens don't have a 2nd round pick this year. They have a 1st and two 3rds.

Guess you're right. No Sens for him then! To just pick him for the gimmick would be a bit much. Scouting should really see something in him, before picking. But when you're ranked 54 you must possess some skills. Detroit seems to do quite well with 2nd to late round picks from Europe...(not that all of 'em pan out).

Speaking of Detroit. I really like their strategy: play 2 years in the minors, regardless. So I think our 2012 pick shall not play for the big club soon (or Murray should think it necessary to trade up to Top 5 material).

Giving the Griffins (Detroit-farm) a second look. No play offs in the last 3 years. Only a few Europeans. Well I guess they need to rebuild. DYK: the Griffins are completely run by Red Wings management?

May 31, 2012 at 4:50 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

TIdbit from a past draft:

Did you know that Ottawa drafted a certain Tim Cook. Guess he quit hockey and went on to head some obscure tech company in somewhere down in California.

May 31, 2012 at 6:43 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

I didn't know prospects could commit to more than one league. Apparently Shane Prince has been drafted by Vityaz / Spartak. I saw a few other names there that are to be drafted into the NHL in a few weeks. Guess once he decides to play in Russia, they hold his rights. Bit scary though that some other team 'owns' him partly as well. I don't think it's common practice for players from North America, since only two of them were drafted into the KHL. If it's not that common, I'd really like to know why Prince choose to enter the KHL draft as well. IMO his future in Ottawa looks solid.

Link

Via: SensTown

June 1, 2012 at 7:17 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

bargaining chip?

June 1, 2012 at 9:25 AM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

bargaining chip?

Might be, but still strange since it's a tactic few North Americans use and the future for Mr. Prince seems bright...

June 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru
June 2, 2012 at 10:54 AM | Registered CommenterHomer

Kelly is worth soooo much to a team that wants to spend the max to make a playoff run. He's like an ingredient that makes the whole dish better. I thought that trade stunk for us. Charelli knew what he was getting even if the media were talking only about Kaberle.

Having said that, I don't know that he's a main ingredient. He's like ketchup. It's not great on it's own but makes the difference on a burger. He'll want a lot of money as a UFA. We'd have to play the young family card to get a deal. His wife might be from Ottawa too.

If Alfie retires perhaps we need a top 3 character guy. I'm sure Eugene is figuring Alfie's paycheque could go to Karlsson and he'll only have to come up with another mil or so.

Signing Kelly would make me happy because I like him and we'll have the cap room, but I don't have to write the cheque...

June 2, 2012 at 3:30 PM | Registered CommenterPesky Jones

kelly won't be back. can't see bryan going backwards, as good a player as kelly is. too many prospects looking for spots over the next few years.

June 2, 2012 at 6:30 PM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell

Any idea what happened to Zack Smith? He was the most exciting former Bingo boy on the Sens. Then he seemed to have circles under his eyes every night and no zip. I don't think he even accepted a fight after Christmas.

I guess you could say that's exactly when Cowan started to look shakey too (stretch time), but Smith seemed like he had mono or something. I wonder if the partying bug caught up with him. We aren't supposed to have room for Kelly because 3rd line center is taken by Smith, right?

Can it be the AHL playoff run? I've been on record as really liking Smith's game going back a couple of years when he came up and there was no room for him. I hope he re-establishes himself next season.

June 2, 2012 at 7:01 PM | Registered CommenterPesky Jones

Z. Smith is like a Mike Fisher - he needs to adjust his style in the regular season so he has something left in the tank for the playoffs.
Smith played balls out first half of the season fighting and hitting and grinding. Fisher used to do that, too but he realized he can't do it 82 games + long playoffs run.

Hopefully Smitty can save up some of that energy for the playoffs next year.

June 3, 2012 at 12:15 PM | Registered CommenterSens Dawg

Sorry Russell...
It's in the Sun, so it must be true, right?!
What a pageclick/view whore is that Garrioch! First spread rumors, just to debunk 'em a week later!

I like Kelly, but apart from Russells private life, I think it's best for all of us that he doesn't sign here. We're in a rebuild remember.

June 4, 2012 at 2:14 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

We aren't supposed to have room for Kelly because 3rd line center is taken by Smith, right?

If I were a GM/Owner... For the money Kelly is gonna be getting, he better be playing on the 2nd line or you have an incredible deep team!

June 4, 2012 at 2:18 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Just a few names I like to see in a Sens uniform, based on several draft reports. Great overview here.
This guy on HFBoards also seems to know what he's talking about.

I added some rankings, to see how realistic it might be.

Defense
Name Rankings
-----------------
Ryan Murray.......... | 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 5,
Matt Dumba............| 8, 10, 5, 14, 6, 3,
Jacob Trouba.........| 5, 6, 9, 7, 10, 7,
Cody Ceci...............| 10, 11, 10, 13, 12, 10,
Hampus Lindholm...| 19, 15, 15, 30+, 11, 24,
Olli Maata................| 12, 27, 20, 26, 13, 19,
Slater Koekkoek.....| 21, 23, 23, 11, 22, 18,

Matt Finn is also projected to be in the Sens drafting range, but since he roots for those dirty tree excrements, I'd say: stay away, he's tainted.

If these rankings are indicative for how the teams view the prospects, things could go all kind of ways. One scout told that Ottawa shouldn't trade up, because in the top 15 should always be a good D-prospect. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to see BM trade up a few spots to get the prospect he covets.

Some players have pretty consistent rankings what means they're pretty low risk if you're picking around that range. Others are more all over the map, which could mean they're higher risk, but could also mean they're a steal if still available at your range (and more likely to be available at a range you didn't suspect).

In following posts I'll highlight why I picked these names, one at a time. That way my huge post hopefully won't be screwed up by my browser when trying to post.

June 4, 2012 at 2:49 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Ryan Murray

Where he's projected, he's clearly out of Ottawa's range. To be sure you get him, you have to trade up to top 5. From 15, you have to give up at least 2 picks including maybe a first rounder of next year. Way to steep. There's a lot to like about him however. Here's some blurbs I read and liked:


"lead by example", "never caught out of position", "easily the best defence first defenceman in the draft", "looks years ahead of his teamates", "workhorse", "some scouts think he is the best defenceman drafted in the past 10 years" (don't listen to those scouts, because they don't know that the best d-man from the past 10 has the initials EK :) ), "Murray may never be that offensive defenceman at the NHL level and it could scare teams off for such an early selection" (which means he could fall in the draft, which is good :) ), "He is a good two-way defenceman that doesn't sacrifice defence for good offence", "an absolute beast that is capable of logging over 30 minutes a night"


"rare kind of game-processing ability and vision that makes him a significant two-way threat", "rarely makes a mistake", "one of the best outlet passers in this draft", "will not shy from using his body to separate his check from the puck", "He will be the kind of player to log over 20 minutes a game while playing tough minutes against the opposition's best players while still managing to put up impressive possession numbers"

I might have been a bit picky with the quotes, but it's easy to see where he could fit in the organisation. Other than what I've read, I don't know much about him, so just decide for yourself.

June 4, 2012 at 3:21 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Matt Dumba

Height: 6'0" Weight: 183lbs
Born: July 25th, 1994
Birthplace: Calgary, AB
Red Deer Rebels (WHL): 69GP 20G 37A 57P, -6, 67PIM

Might be within reach if BM trades up a few spots. I can't assess though if the trading away of a pick would be worth it. Why would we want this kid? He's an offensive defenseman, which is definately a need. Once he'll enter the league, Gonchar will be retired.


"He throws big hits, beats forchecking forwards, block shots and gets his absolute cannon away from the point", "Players like Dumba don't come around often", "One statistics that really stands out his 20 goals. It's not very often a WHL defenceman scores 20 in his draft year. Comparing him to other top WHL draftees: Bouwmeester scored 11, Phaneuf with 16, Myers with 6 and Cowen with 7"


"Dumba is an electrifying and energetic talent who is the second-best pure talent on the back-end in this draft behind Morgan Rielly, but Dumba comes without the worry of a torn knee", "a joy to watch with how effortlessly he flies around the ice" (we know that from some other kid and I'd love to have another one), "

Some knocks...

"he might not be as polished or as good defensively as Ryan Murray", "Dumba definitely seems like a "love him, hate him" type of prospect. He isn't a big bruising defenceman and can't push around bigger NHL forwards", "He does try to do too much which is one of his main issues, but one shouldn't mistake that for selfishness, as he will distribute the puck quite well and isn't a puck hog but just will try to overdo it at times when he does have the puck"

Seems like we have a Karlsson 2.0 on our hands here. I wouldn't mind one of those added to our blueline. Imagine the PP with Alfie gone, but 2 Karlssons. IMO they'd have to play on separate pairings.

June 4, 2012 at 5:22 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Jakob Trouba

Height: 6'2" Weight: 193lbs
Born: February 26th, 1994
Birthplace: Rochester, MN
USNTDP Juniors (USHL): 22GP 4G 14A 18P, +8, 35PIM

Will probably go somewhere between 5 and 10, trade up if you want to have him. Somewhat more of a long term prospect because of the development program he's in. Seems to be a complete two-way defenceman.


"the total package on the blue line and could have even rivaled Murray if he was receiving more exposure", "big, physical offensive defenceman", "He is a defenceman that can come onto a team as the youngest guy on the roster and take a leadership role" (Philips won't be there forever, so more leadership on D is welcome IMHO), "He does all the little things on the ice that teams need to win hockey games and is an absolute beast to play against. He is probably the toughest and most complete defenceman in the top 15 and can absolutely destroy forwards with his open ice hits" (welcome addition since the departure of Volchenkov and Sutton), "very agile for a big man"


"it's his four-way mobility that really impresses", "rarely does a forward get behind him", "Trouba is a standout in the defensive end of the rink with great energy and work ethic on top an impressive physical game"

Some negatives:


"Aside from his skating no part of his skill set truly stands out", "he won't be a premium power play defenceman", "his decision-making is sometimes off in terms of over-aggressive pinches or taking a little too long to decide what to do with the puck, but even that really isn't an issue"

In an instant if he's still available at 15. But I'm afraid Tampa thinks the same at 10.

BTW: As a non-native speaker, is it defence or defense? I've seen both been used.

June 4, 2012 at 6:21 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Codi Ceci

Height: 6'4" Weight: 207lbs
Born: December 21st, 1993
Birthplace: Orleans, ONT
Ottawa 67's (OHL): 64GP 17G 43A 60P, +21, 14PIM
NHL Comparable: Ed Jovanovski / Mark Pysyk / Cody Franson
Projection: Top Pairing Defenceman
Favourite Movie: Hot Rod
Favourite Team: Ottawa Senators

The local boy. As far as I've heard and seen he's all heart. I'd love him to be available at 15. There seems to be a chance that he is. He would be a great fit for the organisation IMO.

Quotes:


"Ceci is an offensive first defenceman that tends to have all the tools to be dominating", "Ceci leads all defencemen in the 2012 draft in terms of scoring from the backend", "I think his defensive side of the game will come around", "He doesn't panic with the puck and generally makes the right play",


"in the big picture makes for a very good defenseman", "sees the ice very well, can make good split second decisions", "He's filled out his body well and shows fine strength boxing forwards out of the crease or with his board battles", "a very good passer", "a pretty well-conditioned player who logged ridiculous minutes this past season"

Some reservations:

"generally leaves you wanting more on the defensive side of the game", "his statistics are bit inflated", "His size wants you to see him play a physical game but you are never going to get that with Ceci", "not extremely fast",

There are some contradictions in the reports. Ceci is the only player I've actualy seen play a few games. All I can say is that I really like him and see lots of potential. Hope his defensive side develops a bit as he matures.

June 4, 2012 at 7:05 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Hampus Lindholm

Height: 6'2" Weight: 196lbs
Born: January 20th, 1994
Birthplace: Helsingborg, SWE
Rögle (SuperElit): 28GP 5G 12A 17P, +25, 16PIM

Projected to go after 15th, so should be available to the Sens and would be the first realistic pick fans could count on. So what kind of player is he? Hey, what's not to like about another Swedish defenseman?


"outstanding skating ability", "exceptional acceleration and mobility for a defenceman", " very good at pivoting and it shows in his play", "not often you see a player of size have his kind of speed", " excellent offensive instincts and could be a smooth skating, point producing defenceman at the NHL level", "He is a two-way defenceman", "Hampus is already great defensively", "I don't think he has the same offensive potential as Ludvig Bystrom but his game has a lot less risk in it "


"the big, toolsy defender certainly looked appealing at the end of the season", "a high-end skater who excels in the transition game", "very effective at bringing the puck up the length of the ice", "for a man his size his skating ability can be quite eye-popping"

Some negatives...


"I don't believe Lindholm has the ability to be a powerplay quarterback or an offensive dynamo like Erik Karlsson" (which is not exactly what you look for in a two-way defenseman, is it?), " needs to get better with his gap control and reading the play with faster skaters" (that's a valid point of attention, but since he's only 18 and still adjusting to the SEL (they entered in the promotion/degradation games that saw Z-bad's club take a step down), this could improve, up to the scouts to make an estimation), "Lindholm's defensive hockey sense is where he needs the most work, as he's not bad in that area but he has his off moments" (prospects that don't need work or only very little, are NHL ready and will be picked top 5, I say it comes with the territory), "he does tend to look a little raw at times with his decisions in his own end or his overall positioning" (needs to be given a thorough look).

As you can see, players in this range have risks that come with them. I guess that's normal. Erik Karlsson had (and has) his risks at 15th. If you're not willing to trade up, you have to take these risks. It's this position where a GM can choose to go for a high ceiling and a higher risk or play it safe but pick a player with a lower ceiling. I think at 15 some prospects with the ceiling of an elite defenseman could be available.

June 4, 2012 at 7:58 AM | Registered Commenterdisappointed labru

Holy crap. Labru, you should have been a scout! you just did more research on those posts than Stooli did in the last 4 years of the show!

June 4, 2012 at 8:17 AM | Registered CommenterResigned Russell